so what is the deal with exetel?

[Geoff]

same website layout, same wording of contracts and agreements, very similar plans and conditions, even the forums are structured the same!

is this just swiftel under a different name?

[MCP]

AFAIK they are a swiftdsl reseller. probably explains the similarities.

[Phil.Pierotti]

Interesting - they have SHDSL offerings:
both 1MB and 2MB symmetric.

WAY beyond what I'd pay for a home line, but interesting that it's available.

[gstark]

Originally posted by MCP
AFAIK they are a swiftdsl reseller. probably explains the similarities.

No.

It's JL's new venture.

Swiftel reborn, as it were.

[Affinity]

Originally posted by Phil.Pierotti
Interesting - they have SHDSL offerings:
both 1MB and 2MB symmetric.

WAY beyond what I'd pay for a home line, but interesting that it's available.

These are available from Swiftel, but there is no public pricing page.

[Phil.Pierotti]

Obviously you need to know "the secret handshake" before you get to see those prices :rolleyes:

[Pigs]

They are going live on the 12th.

Can't wait.

[Spaldo]

Originally posted by Pigs
They are going live on the 12th.

Can't wait.

If they are just a Swiftel re-seller... whats the point ? They will be the exact same quality internet wise..

[Geoff]

...and if they really are completely new then how do they get away with copying just about everything except replacing the word "Swiftel" with "Exetel"...

[gstark]

Originally posted by Spaldo
If they are just a Swiftel re-seller...

Please review all of the messages in this thread. They are NOT a Swiftel reseller.

[MCP]

They are NOT a Swiftel reseller.

But the question still stands that if they are NOT a swiftdsl reseller then how come they can copy the swiftdsl website almost exactly. I dont think that current swift management would be very happy to have JL leave the company and take the website design with him. If he developed it working for the company then it is the property of the company as far as i understand.

[Affinity]

Originally posted by MCP
But the question still stands that if they are NOT a swiftdsl reseller then how come they can copy the swiftdsl website almost exactly. I dont think that current swift management would be very happy to have JL leave the company and take the website design with him. If he developed it working for the company then it is the property of the company as far as i understand.

I think it would depend on what agreements were in place. If there were none, then Exetel could be in serious breach of copyright.

Time will tell.

[MCP]

yep time will tell but according to 'Calliope' on whirlpool who alot of ppl including myself think is JL, there was quite a bit of bad blood between current managemnt (expecially CEO Chris Gale) and JL when he left. Some comments by Calliope:

Not from what I hear. As I understand it Chris Gale would have trouble spelling adsl.
From what I know your statement is not true. he left because he couldnt accept some pretty basic ways swiftel operated and made that clear for more than 5 months before going.

Original thread at Whirlpool (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=145193&p=8)

Interestingly Calliope has the description 'Exetel Representative' under his id at whirlpool so I guess this is JL's new venture. Looks like he'll be running Exetel the way he wants to (no shaped plans but the 12-8am free data is very interesting).

[Pigs]

Well I dunno what it is but when asked they say they have NOTHING to do with Swift. However with a little leg work they have some explaining to do.

traceroute to 202.154.96.34 (202.154.96.34), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 nswrno2-eth2-0-ultimo.nswrno.net.au (203.15.123.113) 0.54 ms 0.35 ms 0.459 ms
2 ATM9-0-0-3.sn2.optus.net.au (202.139.18.113) 2.796 ms 2.631 ms 2.834 ms
3 203.202.36.137 (203.202.36.137) 3.172 ms 2.928 ms 2.836 ms
4 gigabitethernet4-3.ken12.sydney.telstra.net (139.130.2.65) 3.048 ms 3.125 ms 2.836 ms
5 GigabitEthernet1-0.ken-core4.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.12.153) 2.799 ms 3.098 ms 2.961 ms
6 10GigabitEthernet12-0.chw-core2.Sydney.telstra.net (203.50.6.42) 3.421 ms 3.011 ms 3.335 ms
7 Pos4-0.exi-core1.Melbourne.telstra.net (203.50.6.18) 16.415 ms 17.258 ms 16.453 ms
8 Pos3-0.way-core4.Adelaide.telstra.net (203.50.6.162) 28.782 ms 28.492 ms 28.446 ms
9 Pos3-0.wel-core3.Perth.telstra.net (203.50.6.194) 61.015 ms 61.095 ms 60.551 ms
10 GigabitEthernet1-1.qvb1.Perth.telstra.net (203.50.112.58) 174.196 ms 232.367 ms 243.944 ms
11 swift1.lnk.telstra.net (139.130.61.106) 61.008 ms 60.716 ms 60.928 ms
12 p-nya.swiftel.com.au (202.154.95.3) 61.388 ms 60.971 ms 61.422 ms
13 p-nya.swiftel.com.au (202.154.94.21) 60.887 ms 60.841 ms 60.424 ms
14 p-nya.swiftel.com.au (202.154.94.19) 61.387 ms 61.344 ms 61.427 ms
15 p-nya.swiftel.com.au (202.154.94.18) 61.756 ms 61.737 ms 62.427 ms
16 p-nya.swiftel.com.au (202.154.94.17) 79.125 ms 77.979 ms 79.045 ms
17 i.onet.com.au (202.154.96.34) 82.617 ms 81.085 ms 82.664 ms

--------------

name class type data time to live
exetel.com.au IN SOA server: ns1.exetel.com.au
email: postmaster@exete.com.au.exetel.com.au
serial: 2004012901
refresh: 10800
retry: 3600
expire: 604800
minimum ttl: 38400
38400s (10h 40m)
exetel.com.au IN MX preference: 10
exchange: mx1.exetel.com.au
38400s (10h 40m)
exetel.com.au IN MX preference: 20
exchange: mx1.swiftel.com.au
38400s (10h 40m)
exetel.com.au IN NS ns1.swiftel.com.au 38400s (10h 40m)
exetel.com.au IN NS ns1.onet.com.au 38400s (10h 40m)
Authority records
[none]
Additional records
name class type data time to live
mx1.exetel.com.au IN A 202.154.96.34 38400s (10h 40m)

Seem like they have a nameserver in common.
:)

[Geoff]

Ha! This is hilarious - even the help they offer in the forums is taking from the Swiftel site...

http://forum.exetel.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=9

It is said that in the first few days of their web site they didn't quite do the find and replace properly when changing "Swiftel" to "Exetel"...


Edit : I posted in their forum questioning the similarities between the two websites - the post is no longer there and my IP has been banned! Hmmm, someone has something to hide! Well, if that's how they treat a potential customer...

[alexd]

This is stupid, even forumadmin posts there. If they want to hide something they should at least make an effort. :rolleyes:

[Glide]

plans look good to me.........

[Geoff]

Originally posted by Glide
plans look good to me.........

their plans look good, but do you trust them?

That's my issue - i don't really care who owns who or resells what, but if they appear to be doing something dodgy in trying to cover up something as simple as that, why should I trust them?

I'm not going to sign up with someone I don't trust!

[danhaggard]

Looking at their forum there seems to be considerable interest from Swiftel users. I wonder if management here is expecting a large number of churns away to Exetel...

I wonder if they will announce any sort of official strategy.

talking about trust...

Forumadmin over at exetel seems very willing to go into much detail concerning their setup processes, their methodology, business plan etc... This seems to be greater transparency to what we are finding over here at the moment.

Given the obvious changes in the management style of this ISP, for better or for worse - obviously they have changed their philosophy. The strange thing is that it is impossible to discern, either from their official statements, or from their actions, just what that philosophy is.

Geoff - The fact that your post was deleted implies little more than the post was offensive. If I were running a forum and someone implied that I was plagerising, I would delete it as soon as possible - regardless of the truth or falsity of the accusation.

Don't misunderstand me - I aint saying yr wrong about the web design - just that the fact that your post was deleted doesn't really mean much.

[taso]

Originally posted by Pigs
Well I dunno what it is but when asked they say they have NOTHING to do with Swift. However with a little leg work they have some explaining to do.

....

Seem like they have a nameserver in common.
:)

All that tells you is that their website is being hosted on Swift's network. Presumably, that will change if/when they open for business on 12/2, or whenever.

[taso]

Originally posted by danhaggard
I wonder if management here is expecting a large number of churns away to Exetel...

Unless Swift management fixes the AGVC saturation problem protno, they should be PLANNING to lose customers.

[danhaggard]

Originally posted by taso
Unless Swift management fixes the AGVC saturation problem protno, they should be PLANNING to lose customers.

Even still, it's a real blow to the new management because the problem has already been ongoing for some time.

The issue for the future becomes - will they be prescient enough to pre-order their stuff ahead of demand - i.e. be able to accurately project what the usage is likely to be?

This is something the old management didn't seem to have a problem with. That this old management is now involved with Exetel, in terms of reputation, I think it gives Exetel at least one point in their corner.

It is certainly one clear reason to churn - but I wouldn't say it is definitive.

I also think, however, that people want to stay loyal. If Swiftel threw them a bone - even just a single post which admitted the problems and announced what strategies were being put in place to avoid the problems in the future; this I think would satisfy a great majority of those who are planning to churn.

[Dr See]

Originally posted by danhaggard
Even still, it's a real blow to the new management because the problem has already been ongoing for some time.

This is something the old management didn't seem to have a problem with. That this old management is now involved with Exetel, in terms of reputation, I think it gives Exetel at least one point in their corner.

I've heard much discussion about the "old management" and the "new management" in swiftel related forums. Exactly what do people mean when they talk about the "new management". When people compare old vs new do they just mean JL vs post-JL? Are people talking about it as an abstract entity or do they know what/who the "new management" is?

[taso]

Originally posted by Dr See
I've heard much discussion about the "old management" and the "new management" in swiftel related forums. Exactly what do people mean when they talk about the "new management". When people compare old vs new do they just mean JL vs post-JL? Are people talking about it as an abstract entity or do they know what/who the "new management" is?

"Old Management" = Head down, bum up, go for broke drive to build up a viable customer base in the shortest time possible. Sustainable profitability wil come when the customer base gets to the right size.

"New Management" = Scared at how fast it was all happening.

It will be a sad end result if Swift fails to get enough customers to be a successful lon-term player.

[Dr See]

So do people not think that there's overlap of the "old management" and the "new management" (as in people) or old and new (as in work style)?

People talk about it as though the old management and new management (as in people) are completely independent of each other. However, I'm not entirely sure that part of the new management "team", which might include parts of the old management "team", don't have the same management "ethic" that includes heads down and bums up.

Furthermore, people talk about the "old management" as though it would have had no influence on the current management, or the current business issues.

It's similar to making the assumption that when there is a change of government, the current progress/concerns/issues are attributable only to the current government and are divorced from any policies created by previous governments.

How naive are we to believe that?

[danhaggard]

Originally posted by Dr See
So do people not think that there's overlap of the "old management" and the "new management" (as in people) or old and new (as in work style)?

It's similar to making the assumption that when there is a change of government, the current progress/concerns/issues are attributable only to the current government and are divorced from any policies created by previous governments.

You make a fair point, but there are certainly some concrete differences that make it more than just an assumption - their attitude to this forum for one. Even since they announced they would return to moderating this forum, their involvement is nothing like what it was. Specifically, and this is the point I make above, they do not demonstrate anywhere near the same degree of openness concerning the mindset of their operation. They do not engage the way forumadmin did.

Yes, we probably want to avoid blanket generalisations. It's hard to imagine that the new management does not have every bit the same degree of concern for their operation as the old. But that doesn't we can't make the obvious observation that this concern is now approached in a radically different manner.

Forumadmin was refreshing insofar as he didn't mind saying what he thought - to speculate - to talk about the industry as a whole, to involve the customer in the process of giving and receiving a service. I've never seen anything like it before.

The new style may not be ultimately bad in any fundamental way - but it does come across as a very standard, corporate approach.

[Dr See]

Originally posted by danhaggard
The new style may not be ultimately bad in any fundamental way - but it does come across as a very standard, corporate approach.

There is a concrete difference in how the forum is being run - it's not. No one is questioning that, and I for one am not questioning whether forumadmin was a breath of fresh air and generally superb in the handling of the forum. I can appreciate that there is certainly a difference, I'm just wondering whether it's too easy to misattribute the absence of an individual as being evidence of a new management style. The standard approach might just be the current, temporary, absence of a definitive approach as they attempt to fill the role that forumadmin held, in addition to managing the ever increasing volume of applications and connections, as well as maintaining and upgrading overextended systems (eg NSW issues)

We have no evidence that the management of the forums was not going to change irrespective of the continuance or departure of forumadmin. I wonder how long the forum, now with over 4000 members, would have been moderated primarily by one individual.

Having said that, I don't know what the outcome of forumadmin's departure will be. I'm just thinking it's too soon to tell.

[taso]

Originally posted by Dr See
We have no evidence that the management of the forums was not going to change irrespective of the continuance or departure of forumadmin. I wonder how long the forum, now with over 4000 members, would have been moderated primarily by one individual.

This forum was being run in an unsustainable way. It demanded increasingly more time from what I guess was an expensive resource.

It was manageable when there was a small number of tech literate subscribers. They have now been swamped by clueless juvenile males who constantly bitch about lost packets and why they can't get sub 50mS RTTs to their Get-A-Life server on continental USA.

[danhaggard]

Originally posted by taso
They have now been swamped by clueless juvenile males who constantly bitch about lost packets and why they can't get sub 50mS RTTs to their Get-A-Life server on continental USA.


God aint that the truth. You gave me a good laugh.

This forum did use to be a really interesting resource. But I guess the change is inevitable. The quality of posts alone is probably enough to explain the change in involvement on the part of management. I suppose you can't blame them on that score.

It would certainly be a bad look for management to engage on the level this forum has recently descended.

[MCP]

This forum has 'recently descended' exactly because of the poor management who dont effectively engage with the users. Pre december the amount of posts about ping times were constrained to just the service section. Why do you think that they have been popping up all over the place? Because the level of service has decreased and people and getting angry paying for service they DO NOT receive.

I will draw you attention to a whirlpool post by Calliope(who is John Linton the ADSL manager, now with Exetel):

surely would not allow a contractor to fully control its ADSL business unit and its direction (referring to swiftel)

Calliope: I think thats exactly the way it was but if you know differently then you must be right.

from: Whirlpool thread (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=145193&p=8)

JL had primary control over the ADSL business. When someone like that leaves it causes a massive change.

PS: 'tech literate' people dont complain about low ping times and weird traceroutes? Right that must be the computer illiterate people doing that now.

[Dr See]

Originally posted by MCP
I will draw you attention to a whirlpool post by Calliope(who is John Linton the ADSL manager, now with Exetel)

Is Calliope JL? I thought that Calliope hadn't confirmed this, has this been changed?

I recall in one post Calliope denies working for Swiftel

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=150858&p=20#r383

Unless I have my facts wrong, I thought JL did work for Swiftel and was paid for responding to the forum. Now Calliope might be lying, but I have no other evidence that Calliope = JL. Is there a link to the contrary that I've missed?

[Affinity]

Originally posted by Dr See
Is Calliope JL? I thought that Calliope hadn't confirmed this, has this been changed?

I recall in one post Calliope denies working for Swiftel

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=150858&p=20#r383

Unless I have my facts wrong, I thought JL did work for Swiftel and was paid for responding to the forum. Now Calliope might be lying, but I have no other evidence that Calliope = JL. Is there a link to the contrary that I've missed?

Could be his relation listed as the ExeTel reseller on the reseller's page....

[danhaggard]

This is just the sort of speculation Forumadmin used to talk about...

How to let everyone else market your company for you....

[Dr See]

I know, amusing isn't it?

[danhaggard]

Very...

That's why I never say: JL said this, or JL did that... Cause I don't know... I aint never met the guy... I don't know him... and I don't really care if it's him or not. It doesn't matter.

I doubt very much that any one here has met him - as such why bother trying to supplant one set of symbols for another: i.e. JL vs forumadmin vs Calliope?

A waste of time.

[rushn]

Dont you guys find it funny that Swiftel is doing the NSW bandwidth upgrade two days before Extel is going live?

This is too damn obvious, just a plan to drag in even more customers throught Extel, then rip us all off again, cant wat till feb. when I can finally leave this cr@ppy isp.

[Dr See]

Very good point danhaggard

Just to make things clear from my posts at least then, I was trying to use the right symbol within the right context

I use JL when I mean the former Swiftel executive manager of DSL services (not sure of his exact title). I refer to that when I'm talking/asking about the "old management" as he was a pivotal, if not the primary, member of the management team (I don't think that's disputed)

I use forumadmin when I talk about the role of the person who has been interacting with the forums. That may or may not have been JL, or it might have been more than one person handling that role. I think it's all too easy to make the assumption that 1 username = 1 person

And I was trying to clarify the Calliope issue to make sure that one symbol wasn't incorrectly substituted for another. Now I could be wrong, just point me in the direction of the direct (not circumstantial) evidence.

[WykedGuy]

Originally posted by rushn
Dont you guys find it funny that Swiftel is doing the NSW bandwidth upgrade two days before Extel is going live?

This is too damn obvious, just a plan to drag in even more customers throught Extel, then rip us all off again, cant wat till feb. when I can finally leave this cr@ppy isp.

Or could it be that they are BOTH waiting on equipment from the same supplier due to arrive at the same time due to whatever caused the delays ? ... Seems to me JL would more than likely use the same ( trusted/ exisiting business relationship ) suppliers he used when setting up Swiftel.

Swiftel are plugging into an already running setup, and Extel would probably need to do additionl testing, which could explain Swiftel having the gear on line 2 days earlier ?

Or does this ruin another good conspiracy theory ?

[danhaggard]

Originally posted by Dr See
I use JL when I mean the former Swiftel executive manager of DSL services (not sure of his exact title). I use forumadmin when I talk about the role of the person who has been interacting with the forums.

Not many people do. BUt I think it's a lot safer - that is, if yr the kind of person that likes to avoid talking bolix.

And speaking of bolix... yay, another conspiracy theory. thanx Rushn, that was a beautiful piece of empirical observation that never made me want to wretch.

oops... sarcasm...

[MCP]

Ok granted theres not going to be any definitive evidence that calliope is JL. I mean that when he was working for swift he couldnt exactly say outright that he is JL on whirlpool then he would be seen as a rep. but there is alot of circumstantial evidence that makes me believe it:
1. he is now listed as a Exetel rep.
2. On that thread link i posted earlier he says alot of things (in fact states them) about swiftdsl which only someone in that position would know. This is from one of his posts:

-------------------
Ќureuىer writes...
'Perhaps the straw that broke the camels back however was having Chris Gale move from Perth to Sydney to take charge'

no. it seemed to be a series of things that he found completely impossible to deal with over many months.

'It is clear there is no love lost between them'

really? i dont think jl spoke to c gale more than once every month or so. there seemed to be no need. the concept of chris gale taking charge of adsl or perhaps anything else seems to be impossible to comprehend so that cant be anywhere near the mark.

'I understand Telstra Wholesale was besieged with accusations from other ISP's that Swiftel was getting sweetheart deals'

i very much doubt any such thing ever happened

'However, perhaps those kinds of deals will fade away'

doubtful as deals are simple to make and anyone can do it.
btw i am not saying that swiftel wont continue to provide a great service i just felt nauseous reading charlies puff piece on c gale etc. might be interesting for charlie to say where those views were formed. though from the hibernian lilt in his writing it seems that he is male and irish so maybe he is swiftels perth sales manager which would be very odd indeed from what i have heard of his views?

-------------------------

Of course it could be someone who is loyal to JL but it seems suspicious that someone like that would change their description to 'Exetel Rep' as soon as JL left. Notice that line also about how deals are simple to make and anyone can do it. I remember that someone on this forum said that this is something that forumadmin used to say.

PS: seems that both calliope and charlie are (or used to be) swift employees and are having a little spak on whirlpool :D

[taso]

Originally posted by rushn
cant wat till feb. when I can finally leave this cr@ppy isp.

I am looking forward to that happy day more than you.